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Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on October 01, 2014, 05:28:25 PM »
Interpreting the Bible the Gospel of John 7 32-41 Lesson
32. The Pharisees heard that the people murmured such things concerning him; and the Pharisees and the chief priests sent officers to take him.

Why did they not take Him?  God was protecting Him, that is the only explanation.

 33.  Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.

Jesus is speaking of His future crucifixion.  John has mentioned two Passovers.  The third one would be six months in the future, and this will be Jesus’ final Passover.

 34.  You shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, there you cannot come.

Well, not when Jesus goes there, they will have much to do before their time is up.

35.  Then said the Jews(Jeues) among themselves, Where will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?

The word (Jews) Jeues, should be disciples, for that was who Jesus was referring to.  The end of that verse makes that pretty clear.  John also opens the door to converting Gentiles into the Christian faith, something that has been going on for about 60 years, and had become a strong means of growth for the new faith.

36.  What manner of saying is this that he said, You shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, there you cannot come?

That would have put a major question in the minds of the disciples.  A mystery that would have to be solved.

 37.  In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

Meaning let them come to me and be taught of God and His way in the world.  This is  a parable that would have  been easily understood among the Jeueish people who knew how to read and write.  The concept of drinking as a parable for learning, was conveyed through the Hebrew letter “lamed,” which is a hieroglyph of a human mouth, and means to drink. 
 
38.  He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Now, Jesus is using the same teachings that He used with the Samaritan lady at the well.  The water, which is a parable for eternal life, comes from Isaiah 40 through 66.

39.  (But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

This verse is in parentheses so it was added by a scribe, translator, or a publisher long after the book was written.  Whoever added it, thought the Holy Spirit was the river, but it is a parable for the river of life that comes from our resurrection by God.  The Holy Spirit is a tool used by God to accomplish this, but the “water” represents life, not the Spirit.  God had been giving the Holy Spirit to His chosen prophets for thousands of years.  What happened on Pentecost was not a new thing, except for it happening to at least 11 people at one time.

 40.  Many of the people therefore, when they heard this saying, said, Of a truth this is the Prophet.

“The prophet” refers to the “prophet” that Moses said God would send in Deuteronomy 18: 15.  The Lord your God will raise up unto you a Prophet from the midst of you of your brethren, like unto me; unto him you shall hearken;
And this verse is perfectly accurate, for as we know from Revelation 6, that Moses was behind the 6th seal on Jesus’ book of life.  The soul of Jesus had been in Moses’ body.

 41.  Others said, This is the Christ. But some said, Shall Christ come out of Galilee?

So John begins to bring up the controversy of where Jesus was born whether He could be the Messiah because He lived in Galilee, not Bethlehem.  They did not understand that
Jesus was David resurrected, and that David was born in Bethlehem, and that fulfilled the prophesy, where Jesus was actually born, was not relevant.  As we learned in Revelation 6, the soul of Jesus had been in the physical body of David.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
92
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on September 30, 2014, 06:15:34 PM »
Interpreting the Bible the Gospel of John 7 24-31  Lesson
24.  Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

This is something that should be carried forward into our lives, when we see someone who appears to be breaking God’s law, but we don’t know the full story.  God has been doing a wonderful job of judging, for over 2,000 years, despite our interference into His methods and use of punishment, frequently bringing His judgment down upon ourselves in the process.  God is in charge of all judgment, and He uses armies, navies, soldiers, police, and the courts, to do what is best for the souls being judged, in the long run, while there may be injustices, that are there to test us, to see if we will stand up for those who are wronged, all things work together for good.
 
 25.  Then said some of them of Jerusalem, Is not this he, whom they seek to kill?

The priests desire to punish Jesus for healing on the Sabbath, would have been a major rumor in Jerusalem, ever since the man was healed, and the volume, would have increased with the advent of another feast, that might bring Jesus back to Jerusalem.

 26.  But, lo, he speaks boldly, and they say nothing unto him. Do the rulers know indeed that this is the very Christ?

Do the rulers know that Jesus is the messiah?  The common people were unaware of Deuteronomy 13, they only saw the results of the miracle, and knew that Jesus had done good, a man who was useless, was once again a contributing member of the community.  Here Jesus was walking among the rulers, teaching things that the leaders would not have taught, and they don’t touch Him, because they fear the people, who approve of His healing of the sick.

 27.  Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ comes, no man knows whence he is.

Whence is an old English word that means: from where, what place or cause.  In other words, they know where Jesus is, and where He came from, Galilee, but the Messiah, no one knows where or when He will come.

 28.  Then cried Jesus in the temple as he taught, saying, You both know me, and you know whence I am: and I am not come of myself, but he that sent me is true, whom you know not.

Jesus is sticking a thumb in the eye of the Jeueish leaders, because He knows that God will block any attempts to take him at this point in time.  God is the only source of 
security in the world, and Jesus, of course, was well aware of God’s ability to protect Him.  For Christianity to come into the world, Jesus would have to die on the cross, in order to allow Him to replace the daily sacrifice for sins, which would be destroyed and never allowed to happen again, when the temple was to be destroyed in 70 AD by the Roman army.  God had been planning this for over 2,000 years, and he would baby sit the fulfillment of His plan, until the final means of cleansing sin from the world was finished, and firmly in place.


 29.  But I know him: for I am from him, and he has sent me.

So, Jesus plants a burr under their saddles, by saying that He was sent by their God to do what He is doing.  This burr will irritate and gall them until eventually it will lead to the death of Jesus on the cross.

 30.  Then they sought to take him: but no man laid hands on him, because his hour was not yet come.

God was protecting Jesus and keeping Him safe until the time was right for His purpose to be fulfilled.

 31.  And many of the people believed on him, and said, When Christ comes, will he do more miracles than these which this man has done?

Yet John has not listed any more miracles, but the implication, is that while Jesus is teaching, He is also healing.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
93
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on September 29, 2014, 08:00:13 PM »
Interpreting the Bible the Gospel of John 7 16-23 Lesson
16.  Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.

Exactly, just as I am here teaching things that I cannot know by being a carpenter and the son of a carpenter.  My doctrine, like Jesus’ is the doctrine of God, for neither of us could have come up with it on our own.

 17.  If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

What Jesus is saying here is that He was nothing special, what He was doing, every man could do, if they would only choose to follow God and do His will.  I bear the same witness.

 18.  He that speaks of himself seeks his own glory: but he that seeks his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

And all I can say to that, is Amen !!

 19.  Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keeps the law? Why go ye about to kill me?

“Why go ye about to kill me?”  meaning that Jesus knew they were looking for a way to condemn Him to death.  Jesus knew why, Deuteronomy 13:
1.  If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and gives you a sign or a wonder, and
 2.  And the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto you, saying, Let us go after other gods, which you have not known, and let us serve them;
Interpreting the Bible the Gospel of John 7 Lesson
 Deut. 13: 3.  You shall not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the Lord your God proves you, to know whether you love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.
 4.  You shall walk after the Lord your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and you shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
 5.  And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which the Lord thy God commanded thee to walk in. So shall you put the evil away from the midst of you.

Jesus knew that every miracle that He performed brought Him closer to becoming the last sacrifice. Jesus did not fully fulfill Deut. 13, until He was being tried by the priests.  When Jesus said, “thou have said,” He was confirming to the priests that He was a son of God, and therefore fulfilled  the “other god,” requirement in Deut. 13, condemning Himself to death.  God created this whole scenario, just to create the Christian faith out of Jeuedaism, in order to break the tie with Jerusalem and the temple sacrifice, in order to allow the faith to spread throughout the world.

 20.  The people answered and said, you have a devil: who goes about to kill thee?

The Jeues were saying that He was crazy, they were not seeking to kill Him, but Jesus knew better, and He knew why.

 21.  Jesus answered and said unto them, I have done one work, and all of you marvel.

The marvel that is not mentioned, was the healing of the man at the pool on the Sabbath, that happened the last time Jesus was in Jerusalem in John 5.

 22.  Moses therefore gave unto you circumcision; (not because it is of Moses, but of the fathers;) and you on the Sabbath day circumcise a man.

Not all of this verse is from the original, somewhere along the way, someone realized that Abraham was the origin of circumcision, so the words in parenthesis were added, because they didn’t understand what the author meant.  Moses specified that a Jeues was to be circumcised within 8 days of his birth, and as a result it might have to be done on a Sabbath, and Jesus states that they do do just that, because if they waited until the next day, the 9th day, the law of Moses would be broken, which is what the next verse means.

 23.  If a man on the Sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the Sabbath day?
 
The point being that circumcision is required to make a Jeueish boy whole, a full Jeue.  So Jesus is nailing them solidly by stating that what He did by healing the crippled man was the same thing.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
94
General Synod 29 / Kraft Coupons - One Stop Solution Meet Up With Your Grocery And Food
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95
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on September 28, 2014, 05:35:53 PM »
Inter the Bible John 7 7-15
7.  The world cannot hate you; but me it hates, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil
.
His brothers had no clue about what He was saying, meant, but they would see and experience some of it in the years to come.  Jesus was to tell of the evil that those who were leaders in their world were doing, and why it was evil.  Most of those who heard Him would not understand, they would have to grow into the understanding of what He would be saying.

 8.  Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast; for my time is not yet full come.

The “feast of tabernacles or booths” where everyone was to camp out in Jerusalem for a
week to commemorate the children of Israel’s 40 year journey through the wilderness, this would be the second “feast of tabernacles” since John began his gospel.
 Interpreting the Bible the Gospel of John 7 Lesson
 9.  When he had said these words unto them, he abode still in Galilee.

Jesus was still living in Joseph’s house, with his family.

 10.  But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret.

Jesus waited until His family had left to journey to Jerusalem, before He set out, He did not want His family to be harmed because of His actions, and we will see in the next verse, that He did this with wisdom.

 11.  Then the Jews sought him at the feast, and said, Where is he?

The ones they would have said, “Where is he?” to, would of course have been His family, and since He did not come with them.  They could easily and correctly say, “We don’t know,” and not be in danger of sinning.

 12.  And there was much murmuring among the people concerning him: for some said, He is a good man: others said, Nay; but he deceives the people.

This is just normal human nature, when the authorities are looking for someone, it is just natural for someone who hasn’t a clue, to speak against the one being sought, when they actually have no knowledge of the individual or their actions.  Due process consisted of, if someone is being looked for, they must be guilty of something.

 13.  Howbeit no man spoke openly of him for fear of the Jews.

This was a time when breaking the Sabbath, could get someone stoned to death.  The Jeues were not supposed to be able to do this, but they could get you arrested, thrown into prison, beaten, and put pressure on the governor to have you crucified, which is exactly what happened to Jesus not quite a year latter.

 14.  Now about the midst of the feast Jesus went up into the temple, and taught.

All of the Jeueish feasts, lasted the week of a full moon, so people could move around the city and take part in the festivities.  They began on the eve of the 14th, which would have been the night of the full moon.  In the midst of that week, the moon would be beginning to wane, but 3-4 days into the feast, if there were no clouds, there would still be plenty of light for food to be prepared and served in the temple.  People would have been gathered in the courts of the temple, eating and hoping for some entertainment, and Jesus was really good entertainment.

15.  And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knows this man letters, having never learned?

Well, what Jesus knew, He wasn’t supposed to have known, most Jeueish men could read Hebrew.  Beginning around 200 BC, 200 years before Jesus was born, The Jeues began building synagogues, in almost all of the towns, the position of “rabbi” was created as teachers for all of the young Jeueish boys from the age of 6 to learn how to read and write Hebrew and to memorize the Torah, in much the same way as Muslim boys do today in studying the Qur’an.  They stayed in school until they were 12, at which time, they were attached to a master craftsman in order to learn a trade that would enable them to be able to support their family.  If one was to be a temple priest, scribe, or lawyer, they would go to Jerusalem and continue their studies, memorizing the prophets, and other books that no longer exist, or at least, did not make it into the Biblical cannon.  Jesus, having been taken to Qumran, by John the Baptist, and allowed to study the temple library after His baptism, was aware of things that only the priests, scribes, or lawyers, would have known.  Of course He studied with God through the Holy Spirit, so He knew and retained things that were only remembered by the smartest of the smart.  For Jesus, a carpenter trainee to be teaching things that were not known by the normal priests, scribes, and lawyers, and correcting them to follow the law of God, would have dumbfounded the temple staff.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
96
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on September 27, 2014, 07:58:42 PM »
Inter the Bible John 6 67-end 7 1-6
67.  Then said Jesus unto the twelve, Will you also go away?

He knew the answer before it came.

 68.  Then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life.

Make note that Peter is called Simon Peter.

 69.  And we believe and are sure that you are that Christ, the Son of the living God.

This would be what is quoted in Matthew 16:16;Mark 8:29;and in Luke 9:20, each story varying slightly, this one more so, because of the 60 years that had passed since it happened.

 70.  Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?

This did not come from Jesus but from the author’s sense of guilt for what he had done sixty years before.

 71.  He spake of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon: for he it was that should betray him, being one of the twelve.

Remember this verse, and that Judas was the son of Simon, and now chapter 7.

1.  After these things Jesus walked in Galilee: for he would not walk in Jewry, because the Jews sought to kill him.
 2.  Now the Jews’ feast of tabernacles was at hand.

Well our timing is out the window, last chapter it was going to be the Passover, and now we’ve skipped 6 months down the road and it is the feast of booths again.

 3.  His brethren therefore said unto him, Depart hence, and go into Judaea, so your disciples also may see the works that you do.

Brethren, refers to his brothers, because his disciples are singled out as not being there.

 4.  For there is no man that does any thing in secret, and he himself seeks to be known openly. If you do these things, show yourself to the world.

His brothers did not know and understand the seriousness of Deuteronomy 13, as Jesus did.  Like most brothers, they didn’t understand what or how, He could do miracles and heal people.  As we find in the next verse, they didn’t believe in Him, if they, as His brothers couldn’t do these things, how could He?

 5.  For neither did his brethren believe in him.

 6.  Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is always ready.

His brothers were probably already working as carpenters for their father Joseph, their “time had come,”  Jesus had work to do for God, 62 weeks of ministry , healing and teaching about the Kingdom of Heaven, and it was not yet time for that to begin, although it had, with the wedding in Cana.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
97
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on September 26, 2014, 04:29:51 PM »
Interpreting the Bible John 6 55-66 Lesson
55.  For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

Again a parable from the sermons of John, as he tried to convince non-believers, to believe, all related to the last supper story that John did not include.

56.  He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, dwells in me, and I in him.

Again, almost totally true, with the addition of one word to put it in the future tense.  He that eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, will dwell in me, and I in him.  The soul who comes to God, will, one bite at a time, slowly be spiritually remade into Jesus, and while Jesus would not have used these words, as they are written, they are true, and were given to John by God.  Just taking one bite by accepting Jesus as your savior, will set the wheels of God in motion, but the full conversion requires many years.

 57.  As the living Father has sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eats me, even he shall live by me.

Still not the words of Jesus, but true.

 58.  This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eats of this bread shall live forever.
 59.  These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.
 60.  Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

“Hear,” means to accept and understand, it would have been a difficult teaching to deal with for the average Jeue, those who knew the original Hebrew letter meanings, would have been familiar with it, because the Lamed, has a meaning of “to eat, drink, or consume.” Which would have prepared them to understand this parable.  But again Jesus would not have spoken this in a synagogue, this is a sermon of John’s.

 61.  When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Does this offend you?

Now, teaching this to the disciples, would be a high probability, but to the average Jeue, it would have been a waste of breath.

 62.  What if you shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

Still in John’s sermon, tying in Jesus ascension and putting it in Jesus’ mouth as prophecy.
 
 63.  It is the spirit that quickens, the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are (about the) spirit, and they are (about) life.

”Quickens”, means “gives life,” and yes we receive new life through the Holy Spirit, but not with out flesh, something that John and many others hoped to avoid in the future
because of the pain they endured because of the flesh, but there is no real life without a physical body, and once we have been cured of our “desire to sin,” our problems in the physical body, will disappear.

64.  But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

The author makes his first attempt to confess his major sin, that he will not be able to ever forget until his death.

 65.  And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

This is a very true verse, that many people in the church fail to consider when attempting to bring new converts in.  No one will come, until God has prepared them to receive Him, remember the parable of the sower, until God has properly prepared the soil of their mind, to receive the seed, it will die.  Something, that I don’t think even the author understood, on his own behalf.

 66.  From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

As I wrote earlier, these were things Jesus would have told His disciples, but not to the general public as the author quoted Him saying them.  Some of the seventy might have been embarrassed and skeptical of what He said, knew they were heading for trouble, and left.  These would represent the seeds that fell in thin soil, that quickly sprouted up but then died, or those that were crowded out by weeds.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
98
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on September 25, 2014, 07:19:10 PM »
Interpreting the Bible John 6 45-54 Lesson
45.  It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that has heard, and has learned of the Father, comes unto me.

Yes, God does the teaching, we do the reaching, so that we can touch God, but God has to teach us how to reach out to Him.
 
 46.  Not that any man has seen the Father, save he which is of God, he has seen the Father.

Well, Yes and No, Everybody sees God in the personage of an angel, every day, they just don’t recognize Him for who He is, and that is because God has designed it that way, so He can do His work, remaking everyone who can be remade, into perfect spiritual images of Jesus.

 47.  Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believes on me has everlasting life.

This and  all of the following comes from the author, not Jesus, He was too humble to ever say these things, but the author was trying to get across the fact that Jesus was God.  The use of the “I am” statements are designed by the author for just that result.  It comes from exodus 3 mainly verse 14.  The Hebrew word translated as “I am” has an original meaning of “the one here who lives here,” meaning that this God is not dead, but alive, and always will be.  Not His name, just a statement of fact.

 48.  I am that bread of life.

The story of Jesus beginning communion, is not in the Gospel of John, but the beginning of communion is where this comes from, as He broke the bread and said take, eat, this is my body.  His meaning being that by eating the bread you are giving yourself to His way of life, you are willing to “eat” or ingest the life of Jesus into your life.

Interpreting the Bible John 6 Lesson
 49.  Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

Bread was the major food especially for the poor, if they didn’t eat their bread they would die.  Their fathers ate the manna from heaven, but since that happened over a thousand years ago, of course they were dead.

 50.  This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

Having a bread to eat that would allow them to be living a thousand years from then, would definitely have to come from God, and that is exactly what Jesus provides through God and the Holy Spirit, eternal life.  Of course their fathers were alive, living again, and some were present at the Last supper, but their memories were sealed and like John the Baptist who did not know he was Elijah, they didn’t know it.

 51.  I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

True, all of it, but it comes from the author, not Jesus, in those words.  This was from the author’s sermons that he had given over the past 60 years as he traveled and preached the Kingdom of heaven for Jesus.  Perfectly good theology, and a true statement of fact, but not an accurate representation of Jesus’ words.

 52.  The Jews (Jeues) therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

People have always had trouble understanding parables.

 53.  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except you eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, you have no life in you.

Now this is pure John, Jesus would never have said this, but it is what is indicated by what Jesus did, and through His ministry, but definitely not words from the mouth of Jesus, John continues his sermon on salvation.  The words Jesus spoke at the last supper, could very well have been  reworded  into this context.                                         

 54.  Whosoever eats my flesh, and drinks my blood, has eternal life; and I will raise him up at the (his) last day.

Again we need to remember Isaiah 45:17 world without end.  Life goes on forever, even though before we enter the Kingdom, we will experience “last days” of each life.

<><===><>
Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
99
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on September 24, 2014, 06:48:20 PM »
Interpreting the Bible John 6 38- 44
38.  For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

This is just a basic statement showing Jesus’ commitment to doing the work of God.

39.  And this is the Father’s will who has sent me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

The last day of his life, He would be raised up again, to live again to continue to do the work of God.  Meaning that Jesus would be in the Kingdom with all of His former knowledge and wisdom in tact.  It also is a reference to Jesus striving to not loose a single disciple that God has given him.

 40.  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one who sees the Son, and believes on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Well yes, everyone who sees Him, and everyone who didn’t see Him, is raised up on their last day.  Yes, everyone who believes in God and follows the way of Jesus will live forever.  World wise, there is no Last day, Isaiah 45:17  But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: you shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.
And that promise is repeated in Ephesians 3: 21.  Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Most pastors and evangelist, nor realizing that no one comes to God unless God brings them, thinking that that is their job, will never mention this, although it shows up as a chant in many churches during the service as the Gloria patri:
Glory be to the Father, and to the Son:
and to the Holy Ghost;
As it was in the beginning, it is now, and ever shall be:
world without end. Amen.

And most people sing it, but the real meanings of the words, “world without end” never sinks in.  This world will go on forever, God is in control, always has been, always will be, there will be a tomorrow!  there are no “last days” as they are normally thought of in the Christian and Jeueish faiths.

 41.  The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

Well, to get this, you have to put verse 33, and verse 38 together, and this comes from the author who is tying it in with Moses’ mana from heaven, but yes the Jeues would have been murmuring against Jesus because they were not able to accept Him as the messiah, He was placing Himself above them, and that was just not done or allowed.

 42.  And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he says, I came down from heaven?

All of this is coming from the author not actually from Jesus, although this did happen when Jesus went home, and read Isaiah 61 in the synagogue.

 43.  Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.
 44.  No man can come to me, except the Father which has sent me, draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Yes, every soul, has to be prepared by God in order to accept Jesus, and to come to Him.  God may use others, to get them where they need to be, and to allow them to hear words that God will open their minds to, as the truth of God, but no one can come to God, unless God brings them to Him.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
100
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on September 23, 2014, 04:17:01 PM »
Interpreting the Bible John 6 30-37 Lesson
30.  They said therefore unto him, What sign will you show then, that we may see, and believe you? where is your work?

For someone to come from God, they must show some miracles to prove that they are above the average human and not just running their mouth.

 31.  Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

“He” here refers to Moses, not to God, and Jesus will take exception to this.
32.  Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

Moses was just a man, he could do nothing but pray for God to do something, and God did, because of the need.  Now John has Jesus begining to speak of Himself and His mission for God.

 33.  For the bread of God is he which comes down from heaven, and gives life unto the world.

Jesus would never have said this, this is the author tying Jesus and communion together.  Jesus began communion at the Last supper, so He did create the tie from Him to bread.  Of course by this time, 60 years after Jesus’ crucifixion , communion was pretty well established as a dominant part of Christian worship, so whether Jesus actually said this or the author thought it was a great place to insert this line could be debated.  To me it is clear Jesus would not have said this, it was derived from the author’s sermons as a bond with the reason for communion.

 34.  Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

The importance of this concept at the time this was written cannot be stressed enough, for the very poor bread was the dominant food, their very life depended upon their daily bread.

 35.  And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

While to the non-believer that would be foolishness, it is actually very true.  While most do not see it or understand it, all of our food comes from God.  While Jesus is using the bread as a parable for His way for them into the Kingdom of God, the foundation of the verse is absolutely correct.

 36.  But I said unto you, that you also have seen me, and believe not.

To us today who know and believe Jesus to be God, it is hard to believe that someone could be in His presence and not believe, but Jesus at that time was just a man, and to see anything else in Him, you would have had to have been prepared by God to receive Him, and at that time, there were only a few, the major ones being the 12 disciples.

 37.  All that the Father gives me shall come to me; and him that comes to me I will in no wise cast out.

There, Jesus spelled it out, sort of, no one can come to Him, unless God gives them to Him And Jesus says, that He will prize each and every one.

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Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God

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