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UCC Café / Re: Share some daily Humor
« Last post by ArthurStone on August 29, 2014, 08:46:10 PM »
Ramiro, I am not sure that I understand your humor.

School started back up 2 weeks ago here so here is one regarding math which I am sure Cindi would enjoy ...

 The school principal was often amused by classroom comments he overheard. His favorite came from a math student who complained, "I still don't understand how you can do fifty miles an hour if you drive for only ten minutes." 

UCC Café / Re: What are you drinking?
« Last post by ArthurStone on August 29, 2014, 08:39:36 PM »
at the moment coffee with chocolate milk in it
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on August 29, 2014, 06:05:29 PM »
Interpreting the Bible the gospel of John 2 1-10 Lesson
 1.  And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
In chapter 1 Jesus was Baptized, John saw the Holy Spirit descend upon Jesus and mark Him as the Messiah, the next day John saw Jesus and said “Behold the lamb of God.”  The next day, Jesus gathered disciples, Peter, Andrew, Nathanael, and Philip. This is supposed to be happening on the third day after His baptism. Mary, His mother is there at the wedding, and probably has a role to play with the planning and directing of the wedding.

 2.  And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.

God has some plans for this wedding also.

 3.  And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus said unto him, They have no wine.

In the Catholic church, Mary has a much higher position of importance than in most Christian faiths, and this story concerning her part in this wedding, is half of the reason for that.  The highest leadership of the church knew one of the great mysteries of the church, that the angels of God, do not have wings, and they live lives just as we do here on earth and together the angels make up the living body of God, united through the Holy Spirit, although at that time they could not fully understand how that worked, they just knew it did.  Now, pay close attention to what happens next.

4.  Jesus said unto her, Woman, what have I to do with that? mine hour is not yet come.

Jesus has not yet performed any miracles, healed anyone, so He sees Himself as just an ordinary Jeueish man, but Mary is obviously aware of something and pushes Him on.

 5.  His mother said unto the servants, Whatsoever he says unto you, do it.

Two things, one, Mary is obviously in charge here, meaning that she carries some authority over the wait staff, or she would not be able to tell them what to do.  Two, She has authority over and above, just being His mother.

 6.  And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.

A “firkin” is a British unit of measure of approximately ¼ of a barrel.  One thing to remember is these waterpots probably had wine in them and were now empty, but left behind would be minor amounts of wine.  When the Jeues want something kept pure, it was placed in a stone vessel.
  7.  Jesus said unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the

Acting through the authority given to Him by His mother, Jesus takes charge.

 8.  And he said unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.

Now remembering that the wine that had been drunk probably left behind some flavor, and color that the water would have picked up and mixed with it.  Knowing also that God works in the mind, and has the power to let them believe that the water was indeed, wine, whether it was or not.  We also know from Elijah’s crossing of the Jordan river, that God has the power to separate molecules, and therefore may very well have the power to remake water into wine on the molecular level, whatever He did, worked, the way He wanted it to.

 9.  When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
 10.  And said unto him, Every man at the beginning does set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but you have kept the good wine until now.
Now the fact that Mary appears to be in charge would have led the early church leaders to believe that she was an angel, making Jesus a true son of God, and lead them to placing her in a more revered position than is normally given to her in the rest of Christianity.  I will agree that Mary was an angel, but disagree, with singling her out to be raised above the rest of the billions of angels that walk among us here on earth, and I feel sure, she would agree with me.

Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on August 28, 2014, 04:43:49 PM »
Interpreting the Bible the Gospel of John chapter 1 43-end
43.  The day following Jesus would go forth into Galilee, and find Philip, and said unto him, Follow me.

And Philip dropped everything and followed Jesus, of course, God had spent decades preparing Philip for just that moment, though Philip was totally unaware of it.

44.   Now Philip was of Bethsaida, the city of Andrew and Peter.

Meaning that all three had grown up with similar childhoods, exposed to the same teachings and have been prepared by God for just this experience.

 45.  Philip found Nathanael, and said unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

See, Jesus fulfills the prophecy, he is “that prophet” that Moses said would come.  We ran into this back in verse 21 when John was asked if he was “that prophet.”  It comes from:

Deuteronomy 18: 15.  The Lord your God will raise up unto you a Prophet from the midst of you, of your brethren, like unto me; unto him you shall hearken;

 46.  And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip said unto him, “Come and see.”

The Messiah was supposed to come from Bethlehem, not Nazereth.  Jesus was about to blow Nathanael’s mind, as it is recorded in the next verse.

 47.  Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and said of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom there is no guile!

“guile” is deceit or cunning, so Jesus was saying that Nathanael was, exactly what you seen, as honest as the day is long, and could be trusted with anything.

 48.  Nathanael said unto him, how do you know me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before Philip called you, when you was under the fig tree, I saw you.

Now how is that possible, how could Jesus see Nathanael, when he was quite a distance away.  We don’t know how far apart they were, but it was definitely beyond seeing distance, or Nathanael would not have asked the question.  The answer is simple, the Holy Spirit, in that fig tree was probably a bird, what kind of bird is not important. We were told in Revelation 4, Ezekiel 1 & 10 that if a bird sees something, God sees it, since Jesus was in contact with the Holy Spirit at all times, it was a simple matter for an angel who was monitoring Jesus and one who was monitoring Nathanael, to make contact and send the vision of Nathanael as seen by the bird, and Jesus would have received it as a vision, superimposed over every thing Jesus was seeing with his eyes.

 49.  Nathanael answered and said unto him, Rabbi, you are the Son of God; you are the King of Israel.

See, Nathanael just had his mind blown, and I promise you that if something like that happened to you, it would definitely blow your mind, because things like this, just do not happen, except when God is in the process of making Himself known to a future prophet.
And important note to remember here Nathanael becomes the first to declare Jesus the son of God and King of Israel.  Peter will do it later, but Nathanael is the first.

 50.  Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto you, I saw you under the fig tree, you believe? you shall see greater things than these.

And as we know from the Gospels, he definitely did see much greater things than this, but what he just saw, was totally impossible until 15 years ago with the creation of cell phones with cameras, unless you were an angel of God and had access to the Holy Spirit.

 51.  And he said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

This is exactly what every prophet of God sees when God opens their eyes to who He is and how He works in the world.  Nathanael was just beginning that journey, which would last for years.

Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
Theology Forum / Re: The Beast Revelation
« Last post by Michael on August 28, 2014, 02:34:41 AM »
Does anyone agree with my conclusions?
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on August 27, 2014, 06:51:00 PM »
Interpreting the Bible the Gospel of John chapter 1 37-42
37.  And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.

See, God wanted people to know of Jesus and to be willing to follow Him, in order to spread the news.  Those two disciples were disciples of John (verse 35) that left John and followed Jesus.

 38.  Then Jesus turned, and saw them following, and said unto them, What do you seek ? They said unto him, Rabbi, (which is to say, being interpreted, Master,) where do you dwell?

Jesus wanted them to know that He knew they were there, and why they were there. When synagogues were first built, they were schools, so the Jeueish children (boys) could learn to read and write and memorize the torah.  A word was used for those who were there to maintain control and guide the children through their studies, Rabbi is a Greek word meaning “teacher” the Hebrew word for teacher, is “yarah.” Becoming a place of worship was a natural progression from being a school, because what the boys studied to learn to read and write, was the Law or torah, so it became the “seat” of Holy studies, in every community, something our local churches need to return to.  Every church should be a school and a mission.

 39.  He said unto them, Come and see. They came and saw where he dwelt, and abode with him that day: for it was about the tenth hour.

The “tenth” hour would be 4 PM, so a large chunk of the day was gone.  There were only 2 hours left in the day. The day changed at 6 PM.

 40.  One of the two who heard John speak, and followed him, was Andrew, Simon Peter's brother.

We learn from this verse, that religion was a huge topic in the family Simon and Andrew grew up in.  We know who their father was, Jona, but none of his history.  More than likely, their mother and father were adamant about them learning the law or Torah, and it was probably the major topic discussed in their home.

41.  He first finds his own brother Simon, and said unto him, We have found the Messiah, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.

There is no doubt in Andrew’s mind, Jesus is the messiah, because John basically said He was, so it had to be true, because John was a prophet of God, and God spoke through him.

 42.  And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, You are Simon the son of Jona: you shall be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

In the Greek, the verse finishes with the name Peter, not, “a stone.”  During the early centuries of the church there were many different sects vying for the dominant position as the first and real church of Christianity.   In Matthew 7 we find Jesus’ parable of the man who built his house upon a rock:

7: 24.  Therefore whosoever hears these sayings of mine, and does them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

And then connecting to that in Matthew 16:

18.  And I say also unto you, That you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The Catholic church claimed Peter as the founder of their church, and Peter had been given the authority direct from Jesus through these scriptures, which gave the Catholic church the right to claim they were the only true church, and so peter became a “stone” in the mind of the translator in 1611, and he probably got it from John Wycliff, the father of the reformed church, whose translation preceded the KJV by a 130 years.  Of course God did not build his church upon Peter, it was built upon Jesus, which is what Jesus actually meant in Matthew 16:18.  The way the translator translated it, doesn’t make it sound that way, and that was a directive from church leaders to give it the meaning they wanted.

Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
Social Issues and Public Policy / Re: The Silence is Deafening
« Last post by jxrryk on August 27, 2014, 06:27:00 PM »
hence the issue, you are so assured in your beliefs that thinking outside the box causes you to belittle thoughts that go against the grain, cant you see this is the problem with the church today??  Jesus was a revolutionary, he turned the system against itself ....yet todays church wants to "engage in dialogue"  basically the church of today wants to talk, where is the action?

okay so i am out on the fringes, yet you are smack in the middle, neither of those locations are working, perhaps we need to meet in the middle, someplace strange and new to both of us, because the bottom line is, it isnt working for either of us, and if you come back with "everything is fine where i am" you are wearing blinders, I, know SIR, that I am blind
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on August 26, 2014, 05:58:50 PM »
Interpreting the Bible the Gospel of John chapter 1 28-36
28.  These things were done in Bethany, not at the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

This also explains why the translators did not use “Bethany” and created a whole new place, “Bethbara,” because Bethany was in the wrong place to fit the rest of their translation.  I’m sorry to report, that this is all major translators major fault.  The final
translation has to fit their concept of what the verse is supposed to say, even if it’s wrong, and as in this case, obviously wrong.

 29.  The next day John seen Jesus coming unto him, and said, Behold the Lamb of God, which will take away the sin of the world.

This could still be in Bethany, on the mount of Olives or in Jerusalem.  John & Jesus would have both been on their way to a Passover, with their disciples in tow, a memorable event.

 30.  This is he of whom I said, After me comes a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
 31.  And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
 32.  And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
 33.  And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom you shall see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizes with the Holy Ghost.
 34.  And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

O.K. this is the only place this event is recorded in the Bible, which means that this is a method the author used in teaching about John and Jesus, that the author devised to help people accept that Jesus was the chosen son of God.  The Holy Spirit is invisible, it cannot be seen, it does not appear as a dove.  God could have given John a vision, of a dove descending upon Jesus but they were first cousins, and the chances that they knew each other, are quite good, they probably met each other every year during the weeks of the Passover, First Fruits or the feast of booths, when all families were supposed to go to Jerusalem to make atonement for their sins.  John’s father Zacharias was a temple priest, so the chances that John would be there is extremely high, and we know Jesus was there from scripture, the families probably met and feasted together. This scripture was probably created to cut off any suggestion of a conspiracy between Jesus and John, which would only have merit with those who don’t believe in God, and the day will come when they are non-existent.  Soon they will be extinct, all will be converted to Christianity.

 35.  Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;

This would surely have been in Jerusalem.  Stood, means to stay, not to stand up.

 36.  And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he said, “Behold the Lamb of God!”

Again, this would have come direct from God through the Holy Spirit, it probably happened in Jerusalem during one of the feast periods, and would have happened to
increase the notoriety of Jesus, so that more people would begin to listen.  His ministry only lasted for 66 weeks (Daniel 9:26 three score and six), so it was necessary to create incidents among large groups of people where the knowledge of Him could be spread.  The three and a half years that are normally accredited to Jesus’ ministry, was the period of time from His baptism by John until His crucifixion.  The first two and a half years were spent studying the temple scrolls in Qumran, which is where He went when He went into the desert after His baptism.  John knew where the temple scrolls had been hidden away, because of Zacharias his father who was a temple priest.  Jesus’ disciples used the area before and after Jesus’ crucifixion as a place of study for their coming ministries.  John was buried in a graveyard there.

Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
General Synod 29 / Re: Hi to all members on this community
« Last post by ulapento on August 26, 2014, 10:48:26 AM »
Hi i am new too so welcome aboard and hi to all the other members.
Theology Forum / Re: the Gospel of John
« Last post by gary sechler on August 25, 2014, 06:14:03 PM »
Interpreting the Bible the Gospel of John chapter 1 20-28
20.  And he confessed, and denied not; but confessed, I am not the Christ.

John was a full blooded Levite, his father Zacharias was a temple priest, so by heritage, John could have been a temple priest.  In the following verses, John confesses that he is doing a work for God as prophesied by Isaiah, he did not believe himself to be David returned,  but he was ignorant of the fact that he was Elijah returned, as was explained by Jesus in Matthew 11:10-14 & 17:10-13. 

 21.  And they asked him, What then? Are you Elias? (Elijah) And he said I am not. Are you that prophet? And he answered, No.

“that prophet” comes from:

Deuteronomy 18: 15.  The Lord your God will raise up unto you a Prophet from the midst of you, of your brethren, like unto me; unto him you shall hearken;

“that prophet” was another reference to Jesus, and of course John was not Jesus.

John 1: 22.  Then said they unto him, Who are you? that we may give an answer to them that sent us. What do you say of yourself?

 23. crying in the wilderness He said, I am the voice of one crying in the wilderness, Make straight the way of the Lord, as said the prophet Esaias (Isaiah).

Which comes from Isaiah 40: 3.  The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

 24.  And they which were sent were of the Pharisees.
 25.  And they asked him, and said unto him, Why do you baptize then, if you are not that Christ, nor Elias (Elijah), neither that prophet?

John had answered them and answered them correctly, but they did not understand the answer, so he qualified his reply.

26.  John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there stands one among you, whom you know not;

It is possible that Jesus was, at that moment, standing there in the group on the side of the Jordan, who were either waiting to be baptized or had already been baptized.  He wasn’t, but the way the verse is worded, He might have been.  It was a possibility that would confound the Pharisees as they returned to Jerusalem.

 27.  He it is, who coming after me is preferred before me, whose shoe's latchet I am not worthy to unloose.

John did not fully know or understand all that Jesus was going to be or what He would be doing in His ministry, or how it would end.  He only knew that He would be David returned, and He would be the everlasting king of Israel, but he had no concept of what that meant, just as most Christians today have no actual concept of what it means.  He didn’t know that he was here to fulfill Isaiah’s prophesy, until God through the Holy Spirit, put those words in his mouth, just as the words that Jesus was the messiah were put into the mouth of Peter.

28.  These things were done in Bethabara beyond Jordan, where John was baptizing.

Here we have a translation problem, “Bethabara” does not appear anywhere else in the Bible.  The Greek word is Bethany, a community just outside of Jerusalem next to the Mount of Olives, and no where close to the Jordan. Of course if you take this information, define a word to include the author’s meaning, and it will make perfect sense.   For instance, “beyond,” actually means, “not at, but away” from the Jordan.  Most folks would read the verse, place the author in Jerusalem as a reference point, and conclude that John and the Pharisees had there meeting on the other side of the Jordan from Jerusalem, instead of closer to Jerusalem which is where Bethany is at. The author was nowhere close to Jerusalem when he wrote this, so we cannot take Jerusalem as a reference point for any verse, unless that is stated.  The verse can be cleared up by simply replacing “beyond” with “not at,” and the translation problem disappears:

Gary Sechler
With knowledge on loan from God
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